What we’re about
We are a free & open group dedicated to exploring issues common to all humanity. We meet almost every other Sunday between 5pm- 7p.m. at a cafe in Publika, Kuala Lumpur. We encourage everyone to join in the discussion, but there's no compulsion to do so.
This is a discussion not a lecture nor debate and you don't need to be a Ph.D holder.
The owners of the cafe have allowed us to use their premises without charging so we urge you to return this generosity by buying at least a drink.
Interested in hosting a meet up? We strongly recommend attending at least 2 meet ups consecutively, so that you know what to expect and also have a good feel for moderating.
Once you’ve done that, send us a message on MeetUp.com with a short write up on the topic you’d like to moderate. This write up must have:
> 1. A title; which lets members know generally what to expect from the discussion.
> 2. A description, which may be in the form statements or questions, we find that crisp bullet points are best.
Try to cover multiple angles and hidden questions in the topic; ideally about 3 different ones. Remember that 2 hours is a pretty long time, thinking about the many dimensions within topic will definitely help drive the discussion.
Once you’ve sent us the write up, give us about a week to get back to you, and if it meets those minimum requirements listed above, we’ll try our best to schedule your topic in the next couple of months.
Upcoming events (1)
See all- Work On Anti-WorkSan Francisco Coffee, Publika, Kuala Lumpur
Work sucks, but just how much? According to Anti-Work advocates, a lot: "work is forced labor," "a choice of masters [in the labor market] is not freedom," "we are wage-slaves," "we ought to be against work and for full unemployment."
This week we'll be discussing the Anti-Work movement, which surged after everyone was sent back to work after the COVID lockdowns. In particular, we'll be talking about a couple of works against work entitled "The Abolition of Work" and "Full Unemployment."
The Abolition of Work by Bob Black -
https://youtu.be/xeNlctD0RYc?si=hEXFaE4A7-vFQy_ZQuestions:
- Is some work always toilsome drudgery? Or can all work be made into something "convivial" and "exuberant" as Bob suggests? What would it take to make this possible?
- If we "recover" from "employment-induced exhaustion," do you think he's right about everyone "wanting to act"? Marx thought so. Neoliberals assume everyone is lazy. What's the right way to think about the human proclivity for work?
- Bob sweeps across the whole political spectrum and condemns every major movement for work fetishism & the power to command others to work. Is this accurate of these movements? What does it say about the concept of "work" if so? What would it mean to have an "objection to power as such"?
- How do you feel about his definition of work as forced labor? Do we really force labor? If we do, is forced labor truly despicable? What do we have to believe to think not (or so)?
- Would you prefer to live in a society based on play rather than production/labor? What would it take to move us there?
- Do you think play or labor produces more value for society?
Full Unemployment by John Bentley -
AUDIO: https://youtu.be/QOw82Yn1qdY?si=-QbOXPgUnO0NfCUb&t=133
ARTICLE: https://www.philorum.org/speech/20051207JohnBentley.htmlQuestions:
- John joins Bob in defining work as forced labor, and he distinguishes it from work as, "effort that a person does to fulfill an aim." Why choose this definition rather than "effort a person does to fulfill an aim"? What definition is worth defending?
- John argues there's a problem with the labor market when compared with the consumer market. People don't really have to buy crappy products, but many (most?) have to take shitty jobs in the labor market. Is that right? If so, why is the labor market so much less satisfying to workers than the consumer market is to consumers?
- Would John's proposal of "Guaranteed Minimum Income [or Universal Basic Income] "create a market force for the equitable distribution of the meaningful and the shit work," and "a market force for not only what gets made but how it gets made." as he says?
- John argues that the target of full unemployment is less utopian than "no airplane crashes ever", yet arlines still aim for no crashes. How fair is this comparison? What criteria should field which goals society should accept as practical, and which should be rejected as "utopian"?
- Do people find the claim that, "There is good reason to believe that liberating people from the necessity of paid work will increase their ability to contribute to the wealth of society," intuitive? What specific thoughts drive your intuitions on the statement?
- Should individuals be valued only if they noticeably contribute to society? Is it as Russell says: a fundamental political difference? Are we too equivocal about human value in our society, or should we make firmer decisions to support or reject universal welfare?
BONUS (Youtube short):
Noam Chomsky: Wage Slavery as Coercive Labor -
https://youtube.com/shorts/ccVvL8Hca-w?si=GVDjDMyuJrNRQMm_
